The Starting 5: The Group Edition

As we get closer and closer to March Madness, and I whimper to the reverberations of confirmation that Little Brother will put out there last album this year I thought this would be a good time not only to start this series of articles called The Starting 5, but to focus this first edition on Groups in Hip-Hop. The premise of the series is simple, who/what would be my starting 5 in a particular category. So come with me as I unveil my Starting 5: The Group Edition.

Point Guard: A Tribe Called Quest
The Point Guard (PG) job is to distribute the ball, call the plays, see the court, control the tempo and when needed to, score (of course, depends on the player.) The ideal PG is fast AND quick, makes good decisions, and can spread the floor with his quicks and range. This position is embodied in the music of A Tribe Called Quest. When you thought they were going to sound a certain way, they sounded different. When you thought they would do this, they did something different. Each album they came with made folks take a new notice of who they were while never compromising quality. With music that was clearly influenced by blue lights and smokey evenings, and lyrics that were the product of dedication and the long lost ability to construct a rhyme that even at bar 40 still has relation to bar 1 while not being so complex you had to pause and rewind just to “Check The Rhyme”, this group is one of the standards of group mastery not only in Hip-Hop, but in music. When you think about what other groups ATCQ has brought us or touched, this choice becomes even clearer. There were the Jungle Brothers and De La Soul which with ATCQ formed the Native Tongues. You also had classic work with Leaders Of The New School, Mos Def, Common, Queen Latifah, Monie Love, and Black Sheep. Nuff’ said.

Shooting Guard: N.W.A.
Typically, one of the best fusions of offensive skill on the court, the Shooting Guard (SG) is often asked to be the first scoring option for the team. They tend to have the ability to slash or hit the jumper, they have some handle and can pass well, and are generally the ideal look outside of the paint. With the primary goal being offense, I have to go with N.W.A. I wrote about them before in Classic Material but I’m not sure you understand. This group is probably the toughest group on record, period. I don’t mean that in any colorful, creative way nor is there any cryptic meaning behind that choice. Simply put, nobody has come harder or more direct than N.W.A. The way they played the game, they influenced the ENTIRE Hip-Hop culture and STILL have lasting impact well after the group has since disbanded and lost a core member in Eazy-E. Disagree, but lets check out a few rappers you may know that were influenced by or involved in this group shall we? Notorious B.I.G., Jay Z, Lil Wayne, Tupac, Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, The Game, Eminem, and 50 Cent to name a few. How are they connected? Before N.W.A. Made gangster cool to mainstream America, this type of thuggery was only known locally. Gunplay and lyrics were dating before, but now they were married. Drugs and the dark life of the hood were myths before, but now they were fact. You can debate it all you want, but the idea of what it meant to be black and what it meant to love this Hip-Hop was not understood by the outsiders until N.W.A. With their best defense being offense and offensive, I’d have no other group shooting the rock….

Small Forward: Outkast
We can debate this one, but in my opinion, the Small Forward or Shooting Guard is the most important position on the court. The SF has to be able to not just shoot the J, but play with his back to the basket. He needs to be able to handle the rock inside as well as make the open pass. He needs to be offensively capable as well as be defensively minded. Let’s not forget they often have to be able to get the rebound as well as lead the break. This position is for someone who can do whatever you need done. Insert Outkast here. For my money, Outkast is the greatest group of all time. From the moment they touched the mic and blessed us with “Player’s Ball” from the classic album Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik, it was undeniable that we were in the era of Outkast. If you look forward from that album, they went on to give us what is largely regarded as 3 more classic albums. It’s hard to argue with over 25 million albums sold and 6 Grammy Awards. As many groups and artists do, they are responsible for putting their city on the map, Atlanta. The flip side is that they put an entire region (The Dirty South) on the map as well. I have all of their music and had to chop some stuff out to make it fit on one CD to play in the car. I had that CD in there so long, I had to press the eject button SEVERAL times to get it out. I don’t have anything negative to say about them or the music at all and for those of you that slept on Speakerboxxx, your loss.

Power Forward: Run DMC
One of the two largest players on the court traditionally, the Power Forward (PF) may have more responsibility to score or rebound depending on the team and player skill set. Someone like a Tim Duncan is the Point Guard of the big men where someone like Bosh is more of a Shooting Guard up top. Either way, they have to be able to pick up the pieces, occasionally score, but at all times contest anything around the paint. Run DMC (the first mainstream rap supergroup) is the Tim Duncan of Hip-Hop Groups. They are consistent, seemingly un-hyped in most “greatest” discussions, but easily have carried the genre further than any other group in the game (similar to how many players have won rings with Duncan at PF). They are the alpha of groups success in Hip-Hop and one of the cornerstones of the very culture we adore. With a group of firsts that would challenge even the most stubborn critic, there is no denying the greatness of this group.

Center: Public Enemy
The Center is usually the largest and strongest player on the team. They are often asked to score inside 5 feet of the hoop, control any rebound and defend any shot taken in the same area. Of course there are variations a’la Shaq and Yao Ming, but the thing all successful centers have in common, the ability to dominate. With a focus on defense and defensive rebounding, no group is more of an obvious choice than Public Enemy. I don’t think there has ever been a more militant or socially conscious visible group in Hip-Hop than PE. Their focus was clearly set on the struggle and strife of the voice of Hip-Hop in a world that had us on mute. They weren’t the gangsters of the West Coast, the flashy, braggart thugs of the East Coast, the different jazzy sound of the Couth, nor the pop funboys of the genre that some other groups were. They were The Voice of a people, the Voice of a culture. Public Enemy probably helped sell as many leather Africa medallions as Run DMC did Adidas and Kangol Kid did Kangols. Before PE, we had no one to spearhead the lyrical Black Panther movement and say what we wanted to say in the same arena we wanted to say it. The music of PE in the music industry (largely controlled by the same people that oppress the common folks) was the collective fuck you to the bosses that had the knees on their knees on our neck when we got to work at 9:01am even though they knew about the accident on the highway and that you took that route to get to work.

Notable Subs: (PG) De La Soul, (SG) Little Brother, (SF) The Roots, (PF) Wu-Tang*, ( C) Blackstar

*there are two reasons WU is a sub and not a starter, 1) I don’t think they have near the accomplishments of any of the previous 5 mentioned, and 2) they weren’t as much as a they were a collection of artists…kinda like a label. That’s my opinion I guess, but I think RZA said something like this too.

Anyway, who are your starting 5?

The Black Alex P. Keaton
  1. Wu-Tang Clan dropped Two great group albums and five solo (with guest appearances from clan members) from 93-97. I would replace them in the starting five for NWA, NWA wasn’t the same when Cube left.

      1. and if we are talking about solo albums after the group dissipated, we have Cube’s 2 classic drops, and Dre’s classic album.

  2. I can fuck with that list, but Wu-Tang definitely needs to be in the starting five…with a C on their jersey too.
    Classics:
    Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
    Only Built 4 Cuban Linx…
    Liquid Swords
    Ironman
    Return To The 36 Chambers
    Supreme Clientele
    Wu-Tang Forever
    No Said Date (personal classic for me)

    Starting:
    1. Wu-Tang Clan
    2. A Tribe Called Quest
    3. Cypress Hill
    4. Public Enemy
    5. N.W.A (thanks to Cube’s solos)
    Bench:
    6. De La Soul
    7. The Pharcyde
    8. Run DMC
    9. OutKast
    10. Beastie Boys
    11. EPMD
    12. Boot Camp Clik
    13. The Roots
    14. Ultramagnetic MCs
    15. The Juice Crew (although it was more of a artist collective instead of a group)

    1. I guarantee that Cypress Hill puts on a better show than your fav rap group or rapper.

      Plus, Black Sunday, Temples Of Boom, and Cypress Hill can all be considered classics.

        1. Now, you’re just looking for ways to differ. Do you even know that OutKast hardly performs live together. So, I’m guessing the only time you saw them was when they were on tv at the grammys. I’ve been wanting to see OutKast for the past five+ years, but only had the chance to see Big Boi. Big Boi did hold down the stage though (he even spit some of Andre’s verses when I saw him last year). I recommend you get over the race factor and see Cypress Hill sometime.

          1. I brought race in it because you are going real hard for them. If you really think CH is on the same level as Outkast, you are CRAZY.

            FOH

          2. V Maybe you should do your homework and see what they did for hip hop before talking shit. I never said that they shit on OutKast. I said that they are one of the best live groups out there. And it’s not just me, but they great mad respect by the true hip hop heads (4 Platinum albums, on the legendary Vh1 hip hop honors list, a music festival that has been running since 98).

    1. ^That’s how i saw it. Because then you’d have to add Eric B.& Rakim, Boogie Down Productions, and DJ Polo & Kool G Rap for sure.

      1. And those SHOULD be added as well. Regardless if its a DJ and a rapper, they work TOGETHER and are in a group that goes by a name.

          1. Just because you would have to add Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince..regardless Fresh Prince wouldn’t be up there with most of these guys. SImple as that. Let talent in hip hop groups shine. These two man groups aren’t any different then Run DMC (save you add one more member).

  3. i guess the LOX aint old enough to make it into any of yall linepus SMH.

    Real Talk-LOX made better music than about 70% of these groups

    1. The Lox only made two group albums, and neither of them can be considered classic. You can’t even say that they made classic solo albums too.

        1. P, you stay on that stuff. The Lox haven’t even cut a definitive album, much less a classic. Hell, outside of Jada, has any member cut an album that folk still bump?

          1. Who outa Run DMC and public enemies album can you bump? And Styles P still sells well and Sheek still makes great music

          2. It takes a nation of millions to hold us back is a top 10 album of all time! it will get playtime for as long as i listen to music.

  4. Point Guard — The Firm (with Mega)
    Shooting Guard — Outkast
    Small Foward — Dog Pound
    Power Foward — UGK
    Center — Wu Tang Clan

    Bench — NWA, Tribe Called Quest and Lil Brother

  5. @mufucka okay ill give u public enemy but tell me why blackstar and Little Brother are on the bench over Dipset or the LOX. Blackstar made 1 group album dipset made like 5 and the lox made 2 with one coming
    Little Brother never even went Gold
    Dipsets last man of the bench 40 cal has almost released as many albums as big pooh and phonte combined.
    Dipset has three platinum selling artists in one group!
    Dipset was not just a group but a movement (people didnt scream “Little Brother!” or “Blackstar!”)
    Dipset means two times more to rap than Little Brother even if u take off half of their significane.
    Whether this site likes to admit it or not dipset has way more lyricism than they get credit for if u take off Jim Jones and i dont even have to make that argument about the LOX

    1. Black Star & Little Brother aren’t even on my list, so I don’t know what you’re trippin about. And I know you don’t want to hear my opinion on Dipset.

      1. Give me your best shot Im tellin u your not gonna win cause everybody has the same wrong opinion bout dipset and i can prove you wrong

          1. LOL ridiculous u obviously never really gave them a chance. Only person thats that week is Jim. And u talk about Dr. Suess ryhmes does anybody wanna go back to how simple the rhymes was back in public enemy days. Those ryhmes were elementary

          2. the only time anyone from dipset impressed me was when cam’ron was on children of the corn. a group you probably never heard of. and it wouldn’t surprise me if L wrote half his shit.

  6. where the fuck is ugk? and outkast definitly deserves a top spot along with wu-tang. as for dipset? hell nah man. they all wack. juelz got sum good muzik but thats about it

  7. btw that last comment was mine ^^^^^^ yea that one above me bitches

    oh and wu-tang is such a big damn group they can have they own ball team. fuckin set them all up on different positions

    PF- Method Man
    SF- Inspectah Deck
    PG- GZA
    SG- Raekwon
    C- ODB

    then again i have no damn clue what position they wud play
    so i thought id throw in my favs of the crew (yes ghostface is not in my top 5 of wutang)

  8. @Mufaca lol I never heard of Children Of The Corn LOL! Bro i was just playin dey shit yesterday lmao! I know Big L, Cam, Mase, Mcgruff, and Bloodshed and they producer was digga, and Bloodshed died in a car crash, lol dont test me cuz. And Cam changed his style put that doesnt meen anything. Even Nas refferd to Cam as a lyricist before get your shit togetha.

  9. You KNOW I gotta jump in on this, late but better late, right?

    Starting Five:

    Point Guard:

    Run DMC. Your point guard controls the offense, distributes the ball and pretty much is like the QB of basketball. Run DMC did that for hip-hop. They distributed it to the masses. In order for all the other players to be in a position to score, the PG, Run-DMC, had to spark it off. They were pivotal, not just as a group, but as a hip-hop act overall.

    Shooting Guard:

    ATCQ. In a short span of time, Tribe made some VERY potent hits. Up until the end of their careers when their releases started to wane did they show any signs of slowing down in the quality department. But if you needed someone to hit a game changing shot, Tribe could get it done.

    Small Forward:

    De La Soul. De La is the most underrated, hardest working, longest active group in all of hip-hop. De La is the only group with its original lineup, one member being a DJ, the core foundation of hip-hop music and are a group you can never truly consider “gone.” Sure they don’t score the most points or have the flashiest game by any means but they changed the game and paved the way for Tribe, the entire Native Tongue family, and an entire segment of hip-hop that is still emulated to this day (including the retiring Little Brother). De La is the group that is arguably the most respected by any artist you may find featured on Okayplayer.

    Power Forward:

    NWA. NWA championed an entire sub-genre of hip-hop much like De La did. Without NWA the west coast influence on hip-hop is relatively silent. It takes a powerful group to get in an bang with the big dogs (the East Coasters) to ensure their presence is felt and oftentimes outperform everyone else. Whereas with the exception of Run-DMC I still feel that the presence of the other group’s contemporaries would have still emerged and be heard, NWA had that attitude and game that made sure that we would hear voices and talents that otherwise would not have been heard.

    Center:

    No surprises here, Wu Tang. Wu Tang was the last great influential, overarching presence having hip-hop group the genre has produced. A collective of 9+ separate artists that churned out hit after hit and would not be denied like Russell and Chamberlain. Yea Wu were a collective but I feel every group is a collection of individual artists that are a piece of the whole. No group more represented that then Wu. Wu allowed its members to have their own identity while simultaneously giving the group and its brand a separate identity altogether. It’s no easy feat to mesh that many personalities and produce stellar numbers every night. Wu did that. Wu, re-invented/re-influenced/re-ignited an entire coast. During the whole Celtics (Bad Boy) v. Lakers (Death Row) rivalry you could say the Wu was like the Bulls. They had a beast of a producer leader (RZA & GZA) and a supporting cast that showed everyone else, we’re the true collective that won’t be denied. And they have the rings (succesful group and solo albums) to prove it.

    Subs

    6th Man:

    Outkast. One may ask, how can the most succesful rap group of all time be on the bench? Well that’s easy, I truly don’t believe Outkast influenced hip-hop. I don’t even think they put GA on the map. Dre said at The Source Awards, “The South got something to say.” And he was right but the real southern game changers came from Nawlins. I know I’m going to get flack for this because of the whole dungeon family, etc…but I just don’t think Outkast championed the game and had a great influence over it. Each group I started I can associate with a time and a feel within hip-hop. Outkast was that great group that co-existed with the game changers. They made hip-hop mainstream in a different way. I don’t feel hip-hop would have looked any different had they never formed as a group. Without each of my starters…the history of the game as far as groups influence looks drastically different.

    If you want to debate it by all means and if you must you can sub Outkast for De La OR Tribe…otherwise, this is what it is.

    According to the long-winded, hip-hop lover, Mr. A

    1. ok…sub Outkast for ATCQ. I didn’t need anyone to sway me. Objectively speaking it’s just fact. I agree w/Saule’s consensus about the small forward position (it’s my personal fav in basketball) but the shooting guard churns out hits. Who’s put out more hits than Outkast???? exactly. I stand self corrected.

  10. Other potent groups on the bench, PUBLIC ENEMY, The Roots, Cypress Hill, Geto Boys. There’s many, many more but then we’re getting into just naming the great groups of hip-hop which is something different and more broad.

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